## LaTeX forum ⇒ Fonts & Character Sets ⇒ Special Characters for Times ???

Information and discussion about fonts and character sets (e.g. how to use language specific characters)
AliceWonderMisc
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:27 pm

### Special Characters for Times ???

Hello,

TeXLive 2016 - using scrartcl class (Koma Script I believe) with pdflatex, using yfonts for fraktur and Times for the document font.

Working on an article that reproduces a 1782 article in Fraktur followed by same article in Roman type with updated spelling followed by same article in Americanized English.

The original article in Fraktur does have Roman characters on one page.

It has the following ligatures I don't need to reproduce but would like to just for completeness: ct fc and fe

The ct ligature is a fancy one - one glyph, I've seen it used elsewhere and I think it often is in "pro fonts" but seems to mostly be used for aesthetic purposes.

For the fc and fe, what they do is remove the dash that runs through the stem - but leave a bump on the left side. With the dash out of the way on the right side of the stem, they can move the c and e closer to the stem of the f. It's actually quite beautiful.

Is there any kind of an addon that can provide those ligatures matching Times?

-=-

Also there is an italic s that is used that is radically different - it is very tall and slender, looks almost like a slanted integral sign. It's taller than the Fraktur lower case s and is different yet reminds me of it.

Anyone know what I am talking about and possibly how to reproduce it?

Not critical, only one page of the old article I'm reproducing has Roman script, and each of those ligatures and the fancy alternate italic s are only used once, I think anyone reading what I produce who is familiar with the original 1782 typesetting will forgive me for not replicating those, but I still want to.

Thank you for any suggestions.

Johannes_B
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I think you are talking about the long s.

With pdf LaTeX and times ... Good luck. I am not aware that there might be any additional ligatures somewhere.

With a modern engine, you might have better luck. Please have a look at https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions ... 631#250631
The smart way: Calm down and take a deep breath, read posts and provided links attentively, try to understand and ask if necessary.

Stefan Kottwitz
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Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:44 pm
You may have a look at the oldlatin package, that provides Roman (Computer Modern) with long s.

Stefan

AliceWonderMisc
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:27 pm
I've actually switched to URW Antiqua for German written with Roman letters. Times has some problems, for example if an i or j is next to a letter with an umlaut, the dot over the i and j is at a different height than on the umlaut. URW Antiqua does not have that problem.

Unfortunately using URW Antiqua means that inline fractions with $\frac{a}{b}$ use a different font, so I will have to manually create those to have a consistent font (I can use mtpro2 when Times is the font).

But yes, I think it is a long s that I am talking about, similar to an italic f in times but I think taller and obviously with the bar going through it.

I wonder if it might be possible to create it in TikZ but still have the spacing correct.

I'll look at the oldlatin package first though.

Johannes_B
Site Moderator
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Any well designed font should contain a long s (<-Link). Cerntainly any blackletter font, but it often needs special input to be rendered.

With unicode, it is easier. Did you take a look at the link i gave earlier?

Here an example of the long s with Linux Libertine, compiled with LuaLaTeX.

\documentclass{article}\usepackage{fontspec}\setmainfont{Linux Libertine O}[Ligatures=Historic]\begin{document}\large deſign film Waſſer conduct \itshape\large deſign film Waſſer conduct\end{document}

You can click on Open in Overleaf to see the ouput i see.
The smart way: Calm down and take a deep breath, read posts and provided links attentively, try to understand and ask if necessary.

AliceWonderMisc
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:27 pm
Looks like U+222B could be abused to provide a long s.

-=-

pdflatex is what I am using, which pretty much limits me to type 1 fonts but OpenType fonts with type 1 outline can usually be converted, within the 256 character limit - or as multiple type 1 fonts if more are needed.

I will try specifying U+017F and see if that gets me what I want, and if not, I'll try specifying U+222B even though it would be an abuse.

Maybe it is time for me to move to something newer than pdflatex.

Johannes_B
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Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:08 pm
Well, an integral sign is still an integral sign. Apples and oranges

Out of pure interest: Can i have a look at the old text? I love blackletter fonts.
The smart way: Calm down and take a deep breath, read posts and provided links attentively, try to understand and ask if necessary.

AliceWonderMisc
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:27 pm

Just tried xelatex and it seems I didn't install one of my fonts (I'm guessing URW Antiqua) correctly for xelatex -

mktexpk --mfmode / --bdpi 600 --mag 1+0/600 --dpi 600 uaqrrc.pfamktexpk --mfmode / --bdpi 600 --mag 1+0/600 --dpi 600 uaqrrc.pfamktexpk --mfmode / --bdpi 600 --mag 1+0/600 --dpi 600 uaqrrc.pfa

So I'll have to fix that

-=-

The document I'm transcribing / translating - http://ds.ub.uni-bielefeld.de/viewer/re ... 12_018_115

Where the italic long s in a Roman script occurs is on page 185 (reference to resa till Norra America) - there is also a beautiful upright ct ligature on that page. Direct link to the page:

http://ds.ub.uni-bielefeld.de/viewer/im ... 2_018/191/

Johannes_B
Site Moderator
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I am not a guy who can help with font installation. Sorry for that.

I looked at Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gara ... rvliet.png

So at least one version of Garamond has the long s, with matching ligatures and the ct ligature you fancy.

The question seems to be about something different then what you started this thread with. Nevermind, look at the screenshot. If you want to abuse an integral sign for an italic long s, you could just as well use this combination. Linux Libertine is close enough to Garamond, Unifraktur is close enough to the font used.

copy
alice.png (34.55 KiB) Viewed 616 times

original
blackletterFrogs.png (160.29 KiB) Viewed 616 times

\documentclass[twocolumn]{article}\usepackage{fontspec}\setmainfont{Linux Libertine O}[Ligatures=Historic]\newfontfamily\frakfont{UnifrakturMaguntia}\begin{document}\large Rana vireſcens, tetradactylis fiſſis  {\itshape \large reſa til norra America } \frakfont\addfontfeature{StylisticSet={11,14,15},Ligatures=NoCommon} Das Vaterland dieses Thieres ist das nordliche America. Catesby beobachtete und zeichnete es vermutlich in Carolina; Kalm fand es in Neu Yersey. \end{document}
The smart way: Calm down and take a deep breath, read posts and provided links attentively, try to understand and ask if necessary.

AliceWonderMisc
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:27 pm
I think I am going to buy a font - there's a really nice one called Mengelt Basel Antiqua. It's opentype.

With respect to the URW Antiqua font - the italic is emulated (tfm but no actual .pfb/.pfa) and I wonder if that's the problem when I try using newer than pdflatex engine. Mengelt Basel Antigua however has the four standard variants so no emulating is needed.

Also it is designed based upon Antiqua used in scientific texts from that general time period, a lot of the glyphs are a really good match.

And it looks like it has a lot of the vanity ligatures too. It's a very nice font.